Nov. 26, 2025

S3 EP07 The Electrician’s Ad Blueprint: How to Create Unlimited Income (with Forrest Schwartz)

S3 EP07 The Electrician’s Ad Blueprint: How to Create Unlimited Income (with Forrest Schwartz)
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon
Season 3

In this episode of The Million Dollar Electrician, Forrest Schwartz returns to break down the tactical side of running paid ads for electricians. Unlike previous high-level discussions, this episode dives deep into actionable strategies from understanding the difference between intent-based vs interrupt-based ads to building a high-converting Meta (Facebook) ads funnel.

Forrest outlines the full 3-stage ad campaign structure electricians can use to generate low-cost, high-quality leads for panel upgrades, including retargeting strategies and audience criteria. He also shares how Keil Electric is generating leads with a 10X return on ad spend.

If you're serious about scaling your service business and want predictable, profitable lead flow, this episode is a blueprint you can’t afford to miss!


💡 What You’ll Learn:

Why many electricians struggle with converting leads

What is the difference between intent vs. interrupt marketing

How to avoid fear-mongering while still educating homeowners

How to engineer high-converting ad funnels.

Why following up 10 times isn’t “pushy”, it’s professional.


⚡️Featured Guest: Forrest Schwartz, CoFounder and CEO of TopLineGrowth Focused on helping companies grow their top line revenue via digital marketing. 

🌐Book your complimentary call here: https://topline-growth.com/sle


🔗 Resources: ⚡️Take your electrical service business to the next level! Join the SLE Pro App Community! 


⚡️Podcast Powered by Duromax Generators. 

Making turnkey power solutions easy. 

📧 Email: jesse@duromaxpower.com 

🌐 Website: www.duromaxpower.com

📞 Call: 909-490-5789


⚡️Jump into the Million Dollar Electrician Community and connect with real business-minded sparkies!


⚡️If you are an electrician looking for trade-specific business training in pricing, options, sales, attraction, and marketing strategies, Then our Loop Method is your answer!


⚡️Learn how to serve and earn at the highest level. Contact us, we’d love to help!


#ElectricianMarketing #FacebookAdsForTrades #MillionDollarElectrician #ContractorLeads #ForrestSchwartz

00:00 - Speed To Lead Mindset

00:37 - Show Intro And Guest Setup

02:08 - Intent Vs Interrupt: Defining Leads

05:18 - Educate Without Fearmongering

09:10 - Channels That Work: LSA, Meta, SEO

12:12 - When To Add PPC And Why It’s Pricey

16:59 - Brand Building And The 1% Advantage

21:18 - Three-Tier Meta Campaign Structure

28:07 - Targeting, Retargeting, And iOS Workarounds

33:08 - Costs, CPLs, And Panel-Focused Offers

36:18 - Booking Interrupt Leads: Five Minutes, Ten Attempts

42:12 - Bottom Of Funnel And Positioning Your Brand

45:35 - Metrics That Matter And Fixing Bottlenecks

52:10 - Income Control, Ratios, And Reinvestment

55:12 - Wrap-Up and Resources

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.679
Getting the leads was not that difficult.

00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:11.679
The booking them was the real challenge at first until I set the expectation with our dispatchers of hey, you're we gotta call these people 10 times and we gotta call them within five minutes.

00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:14.960
Because think about the window that someone has while they're scrolling.

00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:17.600
And as soon as that period is over, they're back to work.

00:00:17.760 --> 00:00:20.480
It's really important that we get there quickly and contact them.

00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:25.839
But if we do miss that window, then it's gonna take a lot of attempts till we can line up our schedules again.

00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:27.760
And so that's where the 10 attempts comes in.

00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:33.039
And I hear it all the time that on the ninth or 10th attempt, they'll be like, oh hey, Bethany, I've been trying to get in touch with you.

00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:33.840
Thanks for following up.

00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:37.039
They're happy about it because if you think about it, we just made their life easier.

00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:48.960
Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Million Dollar Electrician Podcast, where we help home service pros like you supercharge your business and spark up those sales.

00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:57.119
I'm Joseph Lucani, and together with my co-host Clay New Meyer, we're here to share the secrets that have helped electricians sell over a million dollars from a single service event.

00:00:57.520 --> 00:00:59.840
Now it's time for sales.

00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:02.240
It's time for scale.

00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:07.760
It's time to become a million-dollar electrician.

00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:11.680
Hello, everyone.

00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:14.879
Welcome back to another great episode of The Million Dollar Electrician.

00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.079
We've got a great guest in Forrest Shorts back again.

00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:20.319
Forrest, welcome back to the show.

00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:25.040
Last time, Forrest got a bit into his story, how they're doing it, Kyle Electric.

00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.439
Then we had his partner Andy Kyle on the podcast.

00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:31.280
And we didn't really get to dive into too much ad stuff, Forrest.

00:01:31.359 --> 00:01:35.280
We learned a lot about the upper strategy, maybe that 30,000-foot view.

00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:37.680
But today I was hoping we could get technical, brother.

00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:38.799
How do you feel about that?

00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:40.319
I would love nothing more.

00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:41.280
Let's do it.

00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:44.799
We're in your uh in your ballpark, in your forest.

00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:46.560
Uh Joseph, how are you doing today, brother?

00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:47.599
Feeling great, man.

00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:49.920
Thriving off the power of faith and caffeine.

00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:52.480
Got a list in front of me, but I'm ready to tackle it.

00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:54.000
Feeling blessed.

00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:54.719
Nice.

00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:56.239
I'm gonna put you on the spot, Joe.

00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:56.879
Can I do that?

00:01:57.040 --> 00:01:57.920
I mean, go for it.

00:01:58.000 --> 00:01:59.120
What are you gonna do?

00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:00.079
All right.

00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:05.519
When when electrician starts talking ads in one of your classes, how does that make you feel?

00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:14.319
It's never usually a great feeling because my specialty is I'm already in the home and I know how to sell it.

00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:18.639
But how do you get into the home is a realm outside of my expertise.

00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:20.319
I love that, man.

00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:22.800
Great answer because that's what we want to dive into today.

00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.919
And it's a big part of the metrics that you guys should be tracking.

00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:31.360
So it's not um necessarily just meta ads, although that one's in the title.

00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:32.800
That's what we're gonna be working on today.

00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:37.439
But it's also there's some ads, just logic, some strategy in place here.

00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:52.479
I want to go through that um in in some detail today and make sure that you guys understand this at a level where you can make good ads and ads buying decisions and and decide, hey, is this something that's working for me or working against us right now?

00:02:52.800 --> 00:03:01.520
At least if if this hits right, then we can help you gain the confidence to know is my current market or agency serving me well?

00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:07.280
Do I understand the metrics and what they're putting in front of me so much that I could make decisions around my ads?

00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:12.400
Or is this something maybe I even want to tackle myself or do more of in-house?

00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.319
I think we could learn a lot of that from the discussion we talk about today.

00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:18.560
So, you guys ready to dive into this?

00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:19.280
I'm excited.

00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:20.639
Let's make it dab in.

00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:22.000
Awesome.

00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:22.560
Awesome.

00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:28.159
I think one of the topics we started with last time, but let's just tag on it again to get us rolling here, boys.

00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:34.319
This idea of like intent versus interrupt forest, and and what do we mean by that?

00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:38.400
Kind of help us explore that and and why both are important, if you don't mind.

00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:44.560
Yeah, the the easiest way I've boiled it down to is just the idea of have they decided to do the service or not.

00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:47.599
So with intent leads, they've already decided they're doing the service.

00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:49.360
They're trying to find someone to do it for them.

00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:51.039
You don't have to convince them to do it.

00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:56.159
Whereas interrupt is where they might be open to doing it, but they haven't been convinced yet.

00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:04.319
And so part of our journey when we're talking to those leads is we need to convince them that this is something worth taking care of versus just something that are in the back of their mind.

00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:08.080
They know they might need to take care of this, but they haven't decided to take action on it.

00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:12.560
I think that's the easiest way to distinct them is have they decided to do it or not.

00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:19.439
So if we're in their shoes, like their activities, how would you describe the difference there from their perspective?

00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:31.839
Yeah, so intent is, you know, electrician near me or um breakers tripping, like them looking for someone to take care of a surface of a problem that they know they have and they're looking for a solution.

00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:34.000
It's a matter of who's going to do it for me.

00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:38.000
Whereas the interrupt is they might know they have a problem.

00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:49.199
They might not, you know, like some of these people with uh Zinsco or Federal Pacific panels, they might not even know that their panel is, you know, blacklisted and recalled and you know, a big issue.

00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:50.319
They might not even know this.

00:04:50.399 --> 00:05:00.959
So if we can educate them and teach them that this is a problem and insurance companies won't cover their house if they know they have it, like then we can get them to take action and do something about it.

00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:02.000
All right.

00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:02.959
Good explanation.

00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:04.160
Joe, feedback?

00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:05.279
Just let me in the house.

00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:07.199
You know, the cool thing, yeah, I'm right there with you.

00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.600
Give me in the home, let me give me a door to knock on.

00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:18.720
But the thing I think is really cool is that when you're talking about educating the client, normally that's something where I'm like, oh, you know, don't educate too much in the beginning.

00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:26.079
But in your statement, it makes a lot of sense because if some I've gone to homes where customers don't even know they have a panel, they still call it the fuse box.

00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:29.040
So letting them know it's oh wait, it's not supposed to look like that.

00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.279
I've had this, it's been fine for the past 60 years.

00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:32.319
I've never had a breaker trip.

00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:33.519
Oh, yeah, you don't have breakers.

00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:35.120
Okay, that's something to solve here.

00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:38.399
So I think it's a really cool point that you are doing a little bit of education at that point.

00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:48.240
And I think a lot of people are afraid to over-educate their customer and then have them either go somewhere else or not do it at all, try to do it themselves, maybe even.

00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:48.800
Right.

00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:50.639
What do you say to that person, Forrester?

00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:52.319
Do you encounter that often?

00:05:52.720 --> 00:06:01.199
I mean, at this stage of the game, we're just trying to educate them about the problem that they may not know they're experiencing and what they stand to gain or to lose.

00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:01.680
Right.

00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:09.199
So if we're talking, go back to the Federal Pacific Zinsko panel, like if they don't even know that this is a problem to begin with, we're educating them about the risk of that.

00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:15.120
And then talking about the risk of what they have to lose is hey, there could be a fire and you could lose some of your possessions.

00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:23.360
So just educating them about that they have an issue to take care of is different than educating them about how we're going to go about fixing it.

00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:24.079
Right.

00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:25.199
We're just trying to get it.

00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:28.160
Yeah, sorry, say that again.

00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.560
We're just trying to get them to the table at that point.

00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:31.360
Right.

00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:33.279
Just that awareness piece.

00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:40.560
Do you have an opinion personally on the difference between educating and scare tactics in the marketplace?

00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:48.639
Yeah, that's a good one because uh I've struggled with that before of like you don't want to fear monger and try to scare people.

00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:52.399
But at the same time, you also need to motivate them to action.

00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:57.360
So again, just running with the same example of the Federal Pacific Zinsco panels.

00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:04.959
If we can show them that this is a risk and that they could have a fire and we save them from having that fire, isn't that something that's worth doing?

00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:12.720
So we don't want to fear monger and say, hey, your house is gonna burn down, but we also want to just say this is a risk that is out there if you don't get it taken care of.

00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:17.920
So it's a fine line, but fear is it is the biggest motivator and for for all humans.

00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:24.959
So if we can tap into that a little bit to get them to take an action that is going to benefit them, then I'm I'm less concerned about using that.

00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:38.160
So if I'm hearing this right, and and my personal spin a little bit on this is like it's okay to use facts and educate people on things that maybe they should healthily fear.

00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:46.079
But maybe it's the embellishment or the positioning of that in a way that would make it seem like a bigger problem than it is.

00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.240
Maybe that's the fine line that we're talking about.

00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:49.519
Joe, what are your thoughts on that?

00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:54.879
Yeah, so normally I'm opposed to the over-education for exactly this reason.

00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:59.040
You know, I don't want to get into a home with a customer who thinks that we're trying to make them afraid.

00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:04.480
Really, I could see the gray area comes down is your angle and how you're presenting the information.

00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:11.439
Like you can say, does your panel look like this and have a picture of it and then describe these are the concerns that I see from it?

00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:13.920
And if you do, you can correct it before something happens.

00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:15.279
I see that as a cool thing.

00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:21.360
But if you had a picture of a panel and like an equal sign and a big fire next to it, I see that as a bad description.

00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:25.920
So it really just depends on here's the statement, but here's the correlation.

00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:30.319
And I think that correlation like junction is where we have to be very, very careful.

00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:31.759
What are your thoughts?

00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:35.279
Yeah, I'm gonna speak to uh Tony in the background.

00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:42.480
Hey, Tony, just cancel the ad with the panel on fire, please, and the homeowners scream the top of their lungs in the background.

00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:44.159
Just cancel that one.

00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:45.759
We're not gonna do that anymore.

00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:51.039
No, in all seriousness, I mean it makes sense to me.

00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:55.919
It's it's a tough and fine line to walk, and it's a tough topic to even discuss.

00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:01.039
But I wanted to address it just because if anyone's watching this, I mean they're gonna have that question too.

00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:03.200
Some guys go completely against it.

00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:12.000
And then there's a lot of service providers that love to lead with that 10-point inspection and and actually point out and draw it in a red box, right?

00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:17.919
And show, oh, red is bad, yellow is caution, green is good, and then point that out in that way.

00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:21.440
But that really is kind of it's the same thing.

00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.399
We're trying to communicate what's acceptable and what isn't.

00:09:25.279 --> 00:09:32.960
I I think our intention for SLE is always and always will be to hold a higher level of standard for that communication.

00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:41.039
How can we communicate that simply in a way that doesn't make you afraid in a sense of, hey, crap, uh, I'm running, sprinting away from this.

00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:50.080
These guys are pushing me into some stuff that makes me uncomfortable and makes me want to call other people to test it, but rather can we communicate this in a way that we build some trust here?

00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:52.320
And you actually call us to talk about it more.

00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:53.519
I think that's the difference.

00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:54.000
Yeah.

00:09:54.080 --> 00:10:01.039
The thing that I want to jump in on that is I feel the relevance is really the difference of whether someone feels pushed or not.

00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:11.200
Because of like if I'm in a room and you're asking me to look at the kitchen countertop and I notice there's no smoke detector nearby, I walked past it and it wasn't where it was supposed to be, I can see that being very justified.

00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:19.519
And at the other time, I could see where some people do their 10-point inspections, they're outside checking the pool grounding when it's completely not connected to the thing they were called for.

00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:26.159
So as long as we can stay relevant and have a, hey, I'm doing this because you showed me this, I walked past it, I saw it.

00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:28.159
Was it wrong of me to bring it to your attention?

00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:35.039
Is a much stronger platform to go through than, hey, we're just gonna do a whole home inspection regardless of what you asked for.

00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:38.879
Yeah, Forrest, your thoughts?

00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:49.919
Yeah, so going back to kind of the um using the fear and and presenting some of the risks, I think the the more we can just state the facts, stick to the truth, and just say this is a known risk.

00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.960
If you are have this and this risk is present for you, here is something to consider.

00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:56.320
I'm not saying that's going to happen.

00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.320
I'm not saying it will happen, just stating that this is the risk that's apparent.

00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:02.799
And if you want to do something about it, we can help.

00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.600
The more we can do that, I think the the uh the better we're gonna be received.

00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:08.399
Yep.

00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:09.360
Fair enough.

00:11:09.519 --> 00:11:10.159
Fair enough.

00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:14.240
So back to uh ads and what you guys are doing currently at Kyle Electric.

00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:16.879
Well, what kind of ads do you guys currently run for us?

00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:22.960
Our top two sources right now are um the LSA ads, Google Local Services.

00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:24.480
That's that's our number one by far.

00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:28.080
I think we get a little bit over 100 leads a month from that source.

00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:30.399
And then um Facebook is probably number two.

00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:36.960
We run uh meta ads, and then we do get some with SEO, um, but just kind of come in organically.

00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:44.080
That's a little bit trickier to um to track, but yeah as a as a number, those are our top top three.

00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:45.279
Okay, sweet.

00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:49.279
What do you recommend first for someone just getting in the ads game?

00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:51.360
What's the starting place for most?

00:11:51.759 --> 00:12:01.279
Yeah, so going back to our initial opening question about intent versus interruption, I always recommend people max out their intent side before they move into the interruption side.

00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:03.200
Uh, because again, you don't have to convince them.

00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.600
They're looking for the service, they're asking for it.

00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:08.639
It's an easier close, quicker sales cycle.

00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:11.919
You don't have to try to convince them along the way, they're ready to go.

00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.559
And so I always recommend maxing that side out before you switch over to the interrupt.

00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:18.480
Makes sense.

00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:26.080
Have you or did you encounter kind of a limit to that intent side at first, or was it enough leads for you guys right off the bat?

00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:28.159
No, it was a bit of a struggle at first.

00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:29.519
Um, it took a little while.

00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:34.879
I've noticed a huge or a very strong correlation of reviews and number of leads for LSA.

00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.440
So the people who are less than 50 reviews, they trickle in here and there.

00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:40.399
They don't get a ton.

00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:45.840
But as soon as you get over 100, or you know, we're almost at 200 now, it starts to be more of like how many you want.

00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:49.919
So we spend probably five, six grand a month, and we could probably go more.

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.360
Um, it's just a matter of what we can handle for our sales guys.

00:12:53.519 --> 00:13:02.480
So once you start breaking into it and you get some momentum with it, because that's the other thing, is they're in a way, they're taking a chance on you by referring you out.

00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:10.159
And so the more you've proven and shown that you're a good steward of these leads, you book them, the customers are happy, the more they're gonna send you.

00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:15.919
Just like if you had a plumber that you were sending leads to, the first you're not gonna send them all the leads on day one.

00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.320
You might send them one or two, test him out, see if he calls them, see if they have a good experience.

00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:23.360
And then once he's done 10 of them, be like, all right, this guy's awesome.

00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.120
I'm just gonna keep sending it to him.

00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:26.960
Makes a ton of sense.

00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:27.679
I love that.

00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:35.919
It's almost like trust is the number one currency in every industry, whether you're in marketing, whether you're in service, whether you're in sales.

00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:38.879
They need to trust us just as much as we can trust them.

00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.840
And they need to know that we can take care of their people.

00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:42.879
I love that.

00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:45.360
Yeah, I would agree.

00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:46.799
Yeah, for sure.

00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:50.480
So reputation is super important, then obviously, to build that trust.

00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:52.639
And to me, I mean, it makes perfect sense.

00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.159
We probably touched on this before, too, how important those reviews are.

00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.960
Still, I don't think enough people really take full advantage of this.

00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:10.960
How important do you feel it is to really get like a hundred percent reviews as much as possible, like close to a hundred percent as possible?

00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:17.200
Yeah, I would look at it like imagine if you're you know, if you've ever had a car stall out and it's in neutral and you got to push it.

00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.799
Think about reviews as the angle of pushing that car.

00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:23.519
If you have no reviews, it's like pushing it uphill.

00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:29.039
If you have a couple reviews, it's like neutral, like flat, like it's still pretty heavy, but you can get it going.

00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:31.600
And if you got a bunch of reviews, you're going downhill.

00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:35.039
And now you're you're in that's just trying to stop it with the brakes.

00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:40.559
But the more reviews you have, the the easier of a time you're gonna have to get your marketing going.

00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:42.399
That's a cool way to look at it.

00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:43.440
I like that.

00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:48.000
Some people listening to this right now are saying, Well, you didn't mention PPC.

00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:49.519
Why is that?

00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:51.919
PPC has its place.

00:14:52.000 --> 00:15:00.960
Um, we're actually about to break into doing some of that um just because we want to get more of the demand calls, uh, because we're getting a lot of opportunity calls, but we want some more demand calls.

00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:02.399
We're gonna go on that side.

00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:05.360
But it's it's very expensive and it's a lot more technical.

00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:08.399
So more than likely, you're gonna have to hire someone to do it.

00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:13.759
So right off the bat, there's you know, 500 to 1500 a month, depending on who you're working with.

00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:20.080
And then on top of that, you're gonna need a budget of of several thousand dollars a month to really see much attraction.

00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:27.919
So until you have another call it four grand or so that you're ready to put into marketing, it's probably not the right solution.

00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:37.519
Once maybe you, you know, so say you're cracking a hundred grand a month in revenue and you want to add a fourth or fifth source for leads, then by all means, I would go to that one.

00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:43.519
But until you get there, go to the stuff that's already working, that's cheaper and that that is proven.

00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:45.919
Interesting.

00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:52.559
So you're saying that if I don't have thousands a month to spend, that maybe PPC is not the best avenue.

00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:53.200
Yep.

00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:59.360
Yeah, because I mean, if you think about it, a lot of the people who are in that space are the PE backed guys.

00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.840
So you're going against much deeper pockets.

00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:16.639
Whereas like Facebook, for instance, like the barrier to entry for Facebook is a lot higher because not only do you have to spend the money, but you have to write the ads, you have to record the ads, you have to edit the ads, you have to run the campaigns, and you start getting leads.

00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:22.639
Versus if you're lazy and you have a lot of money, you just say, okay, spend$200 a day.

00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:25.759
Okay, spend a thousand dollars a day, spend two thousand dollars a day.

00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.240
You're just changing the budget that's much easier for you than going out and doing all that work.

00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.840
So it's a fixed pot for these PPC.

00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:38.320
There's only, you know, certain amount of clicks that have uh leads to go around.

00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:40.799
And so you're they're bidding it up against you.

00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:47.200
So unless you want to bid out, you know, it's like going to the auction and bidding against a guy who's got a lot of money, he's gonna outbid you.

00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:53.120
Do you really want to play that game, or do you want to wait till a little later uh when you have some more money to spend?

00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:54.240
Right.

00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:56.080
Sorry, I didn't mean to jump in.

00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:02.399
I was gonna say the thing that I feel is so cool about that is it seems like that's a true testament in anything in business.

00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.480
If you can just throw money at the problem, that's pretty much just hit an easy button.

00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:17.920
But if you're willing to go the extra step and say, I'm gonna design it, I'm gonna record it, I'm gonna target my audience, you're able to get a wider berth with less money involved, but it takes more effort.

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.039
So it's do you want to pay with your time or do you want to pay with your money?

00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:29.119
I can see why avoiding the easy button is the right decision because otherwise you're competing against people who don't really care and they can just keep raising the bit.

00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:30.480
Yeah.

00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:32.480
In the investment world, it's called alpha.

00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.200
It's like how much do you get over and above the market?

00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:41.359
And our alpha is the work that we put into it and and the ability to not be afraid to go get on camera.

00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:43.519
Makes sense.

00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:44.799
I like that.

00:17:45.119 --> 00:18:02.960
Uh, there's some hidden benefits to that, of course, uh, like building an absolute um rock star killer brand, which I feel is also part of your organic strategy and everything else we do, guys, on social media to just be seen in your element, growing a company, but being a human at the same time.

00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.240
I I love that about the meta-ads uh play.

00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:09.359
We're gonna go deeper on some of the technical stuff too, guys.

00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:19.599
But for this reason, then for us, it sounds like PPC wasn't your first choice for the next set of ads to complement your LSA, but meta ads were.

00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:23.359
So you mentioned a couple of those kind of barriers to entry.

00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.640
How do you guys overcome that and get it rocking then?

00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:27.759
Yep.

00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:34.799
So, like I said, that's that difficulty is our opportunity to outperform because we know that most people are going to do it.

00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:40.720
A statistic I like to cite for people is to ask them what percentage of people they think post regularly on social media.

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:42.400
And you get all sorts of answers.

00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.359
And a lot of times they think it's like, oh, it's like 10% or 20%.

00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:47.119
But the real number is 1%.

00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:52.799
So actually slightly less than 1% of people actually post on social media regularly.

00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:55.200
And so that goes to the same thing with our competitors.

00:18:55.359 --> 00:19:00.559
So if we have 100 competitors in our area, one of them is posting regularly and doing content.

00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:06.079
So it's not a huge barrier or not a huge like bar to surpass.

00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.920
So if we're the one who steps up and does that, we're going to stand out tremendously.

00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:16.799
And I mean, uh, Andy was just on the podcast, it happens to him all the time, where he'll be out in public and someone will recognize him from the ads.

00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:19.920
Like his mailman says, Hey, I mean, I see your ads all the time.

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.359
You're you're the guy on the ads.

00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:26.400
He's like all the time, people will come through and and uh they'll remember him from the ad.

00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:29.839
And when he goes into the house and closes the deal, like, oh, I saw your ad.

00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:32.799
Like uh literally, we had it where, like, oh yeah, I saw your ad.

00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:37.759
I went down to my basement and I had a Zinsco panel, so I called you, and here you are, and we got the job.

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:55.839
So like it really does build the brand and puts you out there, which is nice because like even if you're not getting like say say you that you didn't do a good job and you're not getting the leads, which has yet to happen, but just say you happen, you're still getting all those impressions because the average CPM that we see from the video views campaigns is$4.

00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.559
And CPM is a fancy way of saying how much does it cost you to get a thousand impressions?

00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.000
So for every thousand impressions, you're spending four dollars.

00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.359
So if you spend four hundred dollars, that's a hundred thousand impressions.

00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:09.680
That's a lot of people see in your ads.

00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:23.200
Do you believe that that CPM also impacts people's intent and by buying decisions outside of even the parameters of just your ad scope, then your ad scape, however you would say?

00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:23.839
I do.

00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:27.680
I mean, if you look at the bigger companies, they they do more of the long-term branding.

00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:29.920
You know, Coca-Cola is always like an example.

00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:35.920
But I was at a mastermind maybe um a month ago, working with all companies who are$10 million plus.

00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:38.240
Biggest one was like$57 million.

00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:39.920
And all of them are looking at branding.

00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.720
So they're like, all right, I'm gonna put$2 million into this campaign or a million into TV or radio.

00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.960
They're not doing the direct response because they're big enough to where they don't have to.

00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:52.160
Um, but they're looking at it from that perspective of branding.

00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:57.599
So if we can do direct response and branding at the same time, that's a pretty nice combo.

00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:01.200
I'd say, I'd say for sure.

00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:11.359
So the CPM's adding to our authority, it's adding to our brand, but it also a certain number of those views you would hope then are actually clicking.

00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:18.400
If someone's watching this and they're wondering some of the basic meta-ads questions, how to set this up?

00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:19.920
Do I go to a landing page?

00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:21.920
Do I go to an opt-in funnel?

00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.200
Uh, lead capture form, I guess is another way to say that.

00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.119
And what are you doing currently that works best, or what are your thoughts around that?

00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:32.160
So I'm going to preface this and say that I do this all day, every day.

00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:36.160
So if I get a little too technical or skip over steps, or you're like, wait, what's that?

00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:37.839
Just let me know and I'll explain.

00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.759
But the way that we do it is we do a three-tier campaign.

00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:44.880
So we do a top of funnel, which is the problem awareness.

00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:46.880
I think we talked about that a little bit last time.

00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:49.680
We're trying to show them the problem that they have.

00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:51.440
Again, the Zinsco panel example.

00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:53.759
If you have this panel, this is a hazard.

00:21:53.920 --> 00:22:01.039
Um, it also will point out symptoms, like if you have uh tripping breakers or things, you know, things that go out when you plug other appliances in.

00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:07.039
We're trying to call attention to the problems or symptoms that they're experiencing so they can identify with the issue.

00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:09.359
So that's the first layer of the campaign.

00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:15.839
That is a uh in in Facebook, you have three different levels of a campaign, an ad set, and an ad.

00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.440
This is a separate campaign.

00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:18.720
This is the highest level.

00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.720
One campaign is going to be a video views campaign.

00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:27.200
And so with the campaign, it has one objective, like what's it trying to optimize for?

00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:30.880
For this first one, we're trying to optimize for video views.

00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:33.359
We want as many people as possible to see this.

00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.720
Okay, we will likely get no leads from this.

00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:38.880
We're just trying to get it out there.

00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.960
We want to get people to watch the video and feel that they have the problem.

00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:47.680
And the reason we're doing this is because the CPM is much, much cheaper.

00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:53.359
So when you do a video campaign, video views campaign, your CPM is usually around$4.

00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.640
If your ads are really good, you might get closer to three.

00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:04.720
But$4 for a thousand views, if you switch it to a lead campaign, your CPM becomes closer to$30, sometimes$40.

00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:09.119
So okay, let me pause you and warn you here.

00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:14.319
I'm judging how well you instruct this based on Joe's expressions right now.

00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:20.160
This is the teach a sales guy marketing moment.

00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:26.400
So Joe, I hope you're paying attention because you are going to be validation for Forrest in this one.

00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:36.720
Uh, so far, what I heard is you're talking about kind of top of funnel video views being much cheaper than actually trying a conversion tactic of getting them to click on something.

00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:37.759
Is that what you heard, Joe?

00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:40.720
I heard a 10x difference, which blew my mind.

00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.400
It's like this one is$4 and this one is$40.

00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:46.960
And wait, my brain heard that was big X.

00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:48.880
It's like, no, no, figure out why.

00:23:49.039 --> 00:23:49.920
Why is it$40?

00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:51.359
Why is it not four?

00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:56.799
Because if I can go$4 for a thousand, I'll put that button every day.

00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:58.240
So what's the big difference?

00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.160
Like, why would it cost that much more?

00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:02.559
So that's the campaign type.

00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:10.400
So it's Facebook is optimizing to show your ads to as many people as possible versus they're optimizing your ads to get someone to fill out a form.

00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:11.599
That makes a lot of sense.

00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:17.119
I can imagine if you're gonna want to fill out a form, people are gonna be less than those who just can like visually see and move on from it.

00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:18.160
Exactly.

00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:18.720
Yep.

00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:21.599
So we're trying to start out by casting a wide, wide net.

00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:27.920
I was gonna say, isn't it amazing how effort, no matter how small it is, could be one of the biggest barriers to entry.

00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:39.039
Like, you know, we often, when we do our review process, a lot of times what we can also do in the process is we actually say, I'll stay with the customer, I'll send you the link right now, and I'll be present the whole time.

00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.720
That way, if there's any inconveniences, I can solve it for you while we're here.

00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:45.119
And you won't have to go online and find it or look it up.

00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:56.319
And most people are like, Oh, yeah, all right, I'll write it right now then if you could do that, compared to them saying I'll do it and then never doing it because they don't want to log in their email because they forgot their password and they won't be willing to look for it.

00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:57.599
Amazing.

00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:01.119
Yeah, just a tiny little bit makes all the difference.

00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:01.759
Amen.

00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:05.279
All right, we paused you.

00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.359
Go ahead for us, jump back into this with us.

00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:08.559
So so form fill.

00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:13.440
Form fill is gonna be the next stage of the of the uh the second campaign.

00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:22.160
So top of funnel, video views, four dollar CPM, wide net, show these problem symptom ads to as many people as possible.

00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:30.000
The middle of funnel, also known as solution stage, is where we're talking about the solution that it fixes the problem we just talked to to them about.

00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:36.799
So a lot of times for like for panel upgrades, we're saying, hey, we're gonna get it done by the time you get home for dinner or back from work.

00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.480
We're going to have a backup generator so none of your stuff turns off.

00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:47.359
We will take care of the drywall, the um the um stucco, all that stuff, permits, all that will take care of you.

00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:49.680
And it's gonna be done all in one day.

00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:51.839
You're not gonna have a mess lying around for multiple days.

00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.880
So we're kind of talking about the solution of what that looks like.

00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.359
And then those ads are retargeting people who watched the first video.

00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:06.000
So the people who watch, we the nice thing about video views is Facebook tracks how long you watch the video.

00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:10.319
So if you watch the whole video, they're like, this person's really interested.

00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.000
So let's show them that next video.

00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:18.000
So we it's called retargeting, and we retarget anyone who watches more than three seconds of the first video.

00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:21.440
To us, three seconds says there's some level of interest here.

00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:27.440
Because if if you think about how much people don't watch, they might watch one second and scroll, no interest.

00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:37.359
But if you sit there for a full three seconds, there is some level of interest, and it's three or more, it could be 30, but anything more than three seconds, we say something is interesting to them.

00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.960
Let's show them the next one about the solution of how we fix the first one.

00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:41.839
So I'll stop there.

00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:47.279
Just to be clear, like in 2026, which is where we're heading, we're almost there.

00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:49.839
Um, coming to the end of November at this time.

00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:58.400
Three seconds is becoming a long time when you're talking about two thumbs scrolling a couple miles a day on average.

00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.119
Three seconds is a game changer.

00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:03.680
Yeah, I don't stop three seconds for nothing.

00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:08.240
And I bet you a lot of the people you guys know out there are the same way.

00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:10.160
So I think that's really wise.

00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:11.680
I just wanted to throw that in there.

00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:14.720
Yeah, it blew my mind to be able to target it to that extent.

00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:15.599
Love it.

00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:24.559
Yeah, so we use that to so that we're only because remember, this is 10 times up to 10 times as much as expensive for that CPM.

00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:28.079
So we all we want to save it for only people who are interested.

00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:35.680
Because then we're spending that, we're taking that more expensive impression and we're saving it for someone who has shown some level of interest.

00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:37.759
That's the the efficiency.

00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:39.599
And now I do caveat.

00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:40.480
Go ahead.

00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:41.680
If I can.

00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:51.599
What are your thoughts on kind of the iOS updates and how they're kind of blocking some of these different uh tracking mechanisms that would allow you to retarget?

00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:54.480
Has that been um something that slowed you down at all?

00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:58.640
Or don't worry about it, just just plow forward, or or what are your thoughts there?

00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:06.160
Without getting too technical, it was definitely um it was so it was a challenge, but you know, this was three, four years ago.

00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:10.000
It was a challenge because it was uh all the tracking was on the browser side, which is easy.

00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.920
You can get a lot more context from that.

00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:14.559
And now everything is switched to the server side.

00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:25.440
So Facebook has something called the conversion API or CAPI as we call it, and it's a way to feed on the back end on the server side to confirm actions that are taken.

00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:29.839
So without getting too diving too deep, we've pretty much come up with a solution around it.

00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.960
It's just it was nice when we had the browser side.

00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:34.000
Awesome.

00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:35.039
Thank you for that.

00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:47.759
Um, the the caveat I have for the retargeting is that usually with the amount of money we're willing to spend in the in the compressed time period, that we don't aren't able to fill up that retargeting pool as much as we'd like.

00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:53.599
Because we might show it to 100,000 people, but only 10,000 people watch the the three seconds or more.

00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:58.319
And so if we're only showing our ads for the 10,000, that's kind of small of a pool.

00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:05.200
So if you remember what I talked about the campaign level and then the ad set level, and then the ad actual ad level.

00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:19.839
So the ad set is kind of like holding a couple ads, and we'll we'll throw in a few uh what I call open ad sets, where we're not we can go outside of that retargeting pool to just some people who we think might be interested in this just to get enough volume.

00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:25.680
Otherwise, we're we're constricted to this like 10,000 people, and it's just not quite enough to get the results we want.

00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:31.359
So I'll usually throw maybe one half to one third of the ad sets are gonna be open.

00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:37.359
With a few exceptions, like we want to do 50% or more income typically.

00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:40.880
We want to do like 35 and up for age.

00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:43.119
Just we want to get more of a homeowner.

00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:49.680
And I found that the the top half of income and people over 35 are much more likely to own a home.

00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:59.839
Are those the uh only two metrics that you'll use based on uh for refining demographic and interest sets, or have you tried some other interest sets as well to?

00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:02.400
To kind of help with that with Kyle Electric.

00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:05.119
We've played around with a few, but they haven't made a huge difference.

00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:15.519
We do a 40 mile geography, 40 mile radius from headquarters for the GL, but those are those are the main two, just age and and income.

00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:21.519
You know, the thing that stood out to me there was 35 because I'm sitting there, I'm like, wait, our age is being targeted?

00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:24.319
Usually are like, oh, they're targeting to more adulty or adults.

00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:26.559
It's like, wait, we're the adults now that have the money?

00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:27.759
Okay, time out.

00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:29.440
I was not ready to get handed the reins.

00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:30.240
What's going on here?

00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:31.680
Wait, do you have money?

00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:32.640
It's like, wait, what?

00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:34.319
Are we supposed to have money?

00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:37.440
Oh man, I've been doing the wrong thing for too long.

00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:43.039
Yeah, I think I just read today the median homeowner age is 61.

00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:44.400
Uh.

00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:45.839
In the US.

00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:47.519
I don't know about Canada, but in the US.

00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:50.400
It makes sense, but it's a sad metric, but it makes sense.

00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:53.119
So we we tend to skew high.

00:30:55.119 --> 00:31:00.559
Yeah, I guess uh in my mind, you just kind of put me a moonshot into another direction there, and I'll be careful.

00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:01.839
But uh, what did you call it?

00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.559
The silver tsunami with all the baby boomers retiring.

00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:12.720
I guess that means there'll be a lot of homes handed down um with equity plays as well.

00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:14.000
Most likely.

00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:15.119
Yeah, handed down.

00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:25.359
I know that there's a lot of downsizing as well, um, where they sell the house and get a smaller one, but yeah, there's definitely it's definitely a uh a moving demographic.

00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:28.480
Like it's it's gonna be a big trend of I think services going forward.

00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:38.640
Anything you can do to help service those people, because I think the um net worth like allocation is is by far in a way higher for the the boomers.

00:31:38.799 --> 00:31:42.000
If you look at a graph, I think it's like half or more.

00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.599
Um so anything you can do to service them is gonna make you some money.

00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:47.519
I mean, the equity is a no-joke, though.

00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:49.680
I mean, you bought your house for five cents in a bagel.

00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:52.480
I mean, it makes sense that you're gonna be able to turn value on it, you know.

00:31:52.559 --> 00:31:53.279
So I I get it.

00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.039
Definitely good to target them.

00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:57.200
Exactly.

00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:00.240
All right, so you get these leads.

00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:05.200
Um, how much are you getting a lead for from these campaigns for us for Kyle Electric?

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:10.799
Anywhere, so for us, I think we're 22 bucks for um panel leads.

00:32:10.880 --> 00:32:20.960
We've really done this mostly for panels just because it's worked, it's a high ticket, and um I haven't experimented with other ones just because I've been, you know, once something works, I just try to run with it as much as I can.

00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:29.519
Um, so I think we we spent a little under four grand, maybe 3,900 bucks, and got 175 leads, and it worked out to about 2200 bucks.

00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:30.240
Wow.

00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:30.640
Okay.

00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.319
And what period have you done that?

00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:37.759
I think we started in uh June, late June, early July is when I started doing this.

00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:42.640
And it it it to get to this level where I'm talking about today, it took a few months to really dial in the system.

00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:47.599
There are a couple breakthroughs that we figured out, and once we got that, then it's been game on.

00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:50.640
Okay, so it's worthwhile at this point for you.

00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:51.759
Absolutely.

00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:52.559
Yeah.

00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:53.440
Yeah.

00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.880
Cost per lead, pretty reasonable, it sounds.

00:32:57.119 --> 00:33:00.319
What goes into then getting that lead to an appointment?

00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:05.759
And what do you see for kind of fall off there between your cost per lead and your cost per appointment booked?

00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:10.880
Yeah, so this was our biggest challenge early on because we were treating them like the intent leads.

00:33:11.119 --> 00:33:16.960
So we were treated like an LSA lead that came in and you just you answer the phone and you book it because they're ready to go.

00:33:17.119 --> 00:33:18.559
Whereas this is totally different.

00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:23.039
I think maybe last time we talked about the buyer's pyramid, but if not, I'll do a quick recap.

00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:27.359
At any given point, there are 3% of a market who are ready to buy now.

00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:36.400
And that's what the PE guys at the PPC and the LSA and the SEO, all those people are fighting over that same 3% who want to buy today.

00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:40.400
But below that, 7% of the market is open to buying.

00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.119
And they're people who can be convinced or shown that this is an issue that they should take care of.

00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:46.559
They're open to buying.

00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:50.319
They take a little bit longer because you've got to go through that educational cycle.

00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.880
It's not like they decided that they wanted to do it.

00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:55.680
So the sales cycle is much longer.

00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.640
But the flip side of that coin, the positive side, is that their shelf life is longer.

00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:05.599
So think about if you don't answer the phone for one of these LSA leads, what are they gonna do?

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:07.279
They're calling the next guy.

00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:07.680
Yeah.

00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:09.760
See, yeah, I'll find the next guy, he'll take care of it.

00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:16.320
Whereas with these ones, if you don't get to them quickly or you aren't able to make contact with them right away, they're not gonna go to someone else.

00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:19.599
They've just now just begun to talk about it.

00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:20.400
Go ahead, Joe.

00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:30.079
Operation Educate a Sales Guy has definitely made a next leap because I see an immediate correlation to the options process where you're like, okay, you've got someone who wants to buy immediately.

00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:31.039
That makes sense.

00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:37.840
But the reasons why options work is they didn't understand they had a problem, they weren't aware of it, or maybe they did know, but didn't know the extent of it.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.239
They didn't know that the solutions would be feasible.

00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:43.760
And here you are presenting and educating, they're like, okay, yeah, that makes sense.

00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:45.119
I'm willing to proceed with that.

00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:47.519
It seems like that's exactly what you're doing as well.

00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.639
I'm educating enough to make them cross that bridge.

00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:55.519
You're then showing them the benefits of crossing the bridge and then giving them a path to do so.

00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:56.400
I love it.

00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:58.159
I think it's absolutely brilliant.

00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:00.320
It's working so far.

00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:00.960
All right.

00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:01.840
Yeah.

00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:11.679
So one of the other brilliant things, if I could just throw in there quick, is that we had this discussion a while back, Joe, and you see electricians do this to try to drum up leads for us.

00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:13.840
It'd be interesting to hear your opinion on this too.

00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:21.440
But there's a lot of electricians in service who default to offering free inspections as a way to try to get leads in the house.

00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:27.840
And my biggest beef with this tactic is A, it's severely discounted and really bleeds you out.

00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:29.599
You're hoping that you find something.

00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.360
And the homeowners know this.

00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:34.159
Yeah, they know that you're looking for stuff to fix.

00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:42.719
There's very, very few, basically, the intent leads, the people that are thinking, and probably their boomers too, thinking, well, we could use some home upgrades anyway.

00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:44.719
So let's go ahead and allocate some budget.

00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:46.639
And they're thinking that before they call.

00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:56.960
But also from your service technician's perspective, these are some of the hardest calls to do because even if they welcome the inspection to just learn, they're not problem aware at all.

00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:04.400
So you have to take them from problem aware to solutions aware and then create a buyer all in the process of a visit.

00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:06.320
And it's too big of a gap.

00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:08.639
The sales cycle is not meant to be that short.

00:36:08.800 --> 00:36:12.079
So it's very unproductive, I've found personally.

00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:19.519
I think the additional thing though is also the scarcity deflation, because as something becomes more scarce, it becomes more valuable.

00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:27.599
And if we're willing to say, I'm going to offer free inspections, there's no charge, I'll show up, I'll do the whole home evaluation, I'll design solutions.

00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:32.400
And they haven't asked for it, or there's no relative, like it's not a Christmas bonus.

00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:36.000
It's not something that's happened, you don't have a specific reason to do it.

00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:37.679
Community give back day.

00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:39.840
Like there's no reason to do so.

00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:41.679
You seem like you're desperate.

00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:46.000
And as a result, if you're desperate, you don't command the right to have a premium price.

00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:49.440
If anything, there should be a higher barrier to get someone into the door.

00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:54.559
And that would make someone motivated to do it because they're like, wow, if we have this guy come in, that's that's a rare thing.

00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:55.679
All right, let's let's invest in that.

00:36:55.920 --> 00:36:57.360
That doesn't happen all the time.

00:36:58.159 --> 00:36:58.719
For sure.

00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:07.199
So from a service person's perspective, uh, salesperson, service, whatever, you're a safety uh specialist, you're going to someone's house knowing they have a Zensco.

00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:10.239
Knowing exactly why they called.

00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:11.119
It's already out.

00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:12.960
And that's a gift all day, every day.

00:37:13.039 --> 00:37:14.159
That's a call I want to run.

00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:15.840
I'd agree with you there.

00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:19.039
Have you seen have you seen anyone against that yet, Forrest?

00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:25.039
No, so I've seen pretty much zero correlation between mentioning like a free inspection in the ad and them asking for it.

00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:28.079
So, like, I've never had someone, where's my free inspection?

00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:33.440
Like, when they fill out the form, there's a field that we put in there about the issue they're having, and we just address that.

00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:36.000
Like they're not calling us because of a free inspection.

00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:38.400
And sometimes we say it, sometimes we don't.

00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:41.440
Um, but they never even ask twice about it.

00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:48.079
So we just address the uh the problem that they brought up, like the the dispatcher will.

00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:49.679
Fair enough.

00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.960
So to go more technical, then uh we're seeing this works.

00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:54.239
You said 4K.

00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:56.400
That's a relatively low investment.

00:37:56.559 --> 00:38:02.480
Uh earlier you said, hey, PPC, a lot of times it would be advised to spend thousands a month to get a reasonable result.

00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:07.519
You spent 4,000 in like four months, four, four and a half months, five months, maybe.

00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:08.400
Yep.

00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:10.000
And you got great results.

00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.599
You had 120 leads.

00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:19.119
You've said you learned from um how to treat them more like um not the intent, but the interrupt leads that they are.

00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:20.800
You mentioned shelf life.

00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:28.400
And what you meant by that, I I perceived was that we can continue to reach out to these people until it is a fit, essentially.

00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:31.840
I know some electricians really struggle with this barrier.

00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:39.760
How do you guys justify the continual follow-up it sometimes takes to um continue this conversation and move things across the line?

00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:42.960
Yeah, I'd say this was probably the most difficult part of this journey.

00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:56.239
Getting the leads was not that difficult, but booking them was the real challenge at first until I set the expectation with our dispatchers of, hey, you're we gotta call these people 10 times and we got to call them within five minutes.

00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:06.960
And at first it took a lot of kind of you know, nagging for lack of a better word, where I'm just on them all the time because we they come into our Slack, and as soon as they come in, I would tag them and say, Hey, do you got this one?

00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:11.039
And after doing that for like three months, uh, they finally kind of do it on their own now.

00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:17.920
So, but that was the the biggest challenge is that they wouldn't call them fast enough because think about the window that someone has while they're scrolling.

00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:22.960
You know, they're either in in the restroom or you know, doing something like in between tasks.

00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:25.920
And as soon as that period is over, they're back to work.

00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.119
They're they're back in the car.

00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:28.559
Like you kind of lost that period.

00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:32.079
So it's really important that we get there quickly and contact them.

00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:38.159
But if we do miss that window, then it's gonna take a lot of attempts till we can line up our schedules again.

00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:39.760
Like, think about how busy people are.

00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:45.840
Think about when you're trying to schedule something with someone and you're trying to make those calendars work, it's it's really no different than when we're calling them.

00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:47.840
And we're just guessing, saying, hey, does this work?

00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:48.400
Does this work?

00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:49.119
Does this work?

00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:50.719
And usually the answer is no.

00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:51.840
They're usually busy.

00:39:52.000 --> 00:40:00.000
And so that's where the 10 attempts comes in is like if we give them 10 different uh potential appointment times, I bet we can connect on one of them.

00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:01.280
And I hear it all the time.

00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:08.960
My my dispatcher tells me that very frequently, that on the ninth or 10th attempt, they'll be like, oh, hey, Bethany, I've been trying to get in touch with you.

00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:10.400
Thanks for following up.

00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:15.599
They're they're they're uh they're happy about it because if you think about it, we just made their life easier.

00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:21.760
Because otherwise, they got to start from scratch, call another electrician, try to book an appointment and go through all that rigmarole.

00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:26.239
But instead, now they just press the green accept button and they get to take care of their problem.

00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:28.079
Joe, you said you're a big list guy.

00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:32.159
They get to cross that off their list now just by pressing the green accept button.

00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:39.599
The best invention for lists was the one where they had the ability, I think Google made with Google Notes, where you can cross the list off.

00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:44.480
And instead of being removed from the list, it adds a gray little line over it and blurs it out.

00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:49.199
That is the most satisfying list moment right there.

00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:53.440
So we're giving people that by reaching out multiple times.

00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:54.960
We're giving that to people.

00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:59.360
And I think I drew a parallel as you were you were saying this, and maybe this helps.

00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:13.199
Joe, you ever been kind of pissed at a situation or someone, something upset you, but then you go for a walk, and afterwards you're not upset so much to leave a bad review or to even call them again or to message or anything like that.

00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.199
It's just like, yeah, say la vie.

00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:19.599
We'll we'll just let that uh let sleeping dogs lie, I think is the expression, right?

00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:26.480
You know, I'm a weird one because I will almost always write the five-star review, but it takes a lot.

00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:35.840
It takes so much anger to write the bad review because as someone who's owned businesses before, I know what a blow that is and how dangerous that can be for someone's brand.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:38.559
So, like, you've got to really fuck up.

00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:49.199
Like, for lack of better words, you've got to really, really mess up and make me feel bad or underserve me to the extent where I'm like, I don't care for the repercussions, one star, and here's why.

00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:50.559
Yeah.

00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:56.960
So if you guys have ever had like a happy Gilmore moment like that, and you realize, uh, the emotion kind of fades after some activity.

00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:00.639
Well, what Forrest, I think you're saying is like the activity was already planned.

00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:02.239
They may have only paused for a moment.

00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:13.519
It might have been a coffee break, a porcelain throne date, whatever it was, they go back to movement in their life and the emotion of what they just witnessed, the reason they fill out the form actually fades a bit.

00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:25.360
And so it's the right thing to do to continue to follow up and to continue to have them see your videos even in that CPM placement because they there was a reason they got emotional in the first place.

00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:27.119
That part didn't go away.

00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:29.039
It's still on their honeydew list.

00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:30.320
That's kind of what I'm hearing.

00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:31.679
How does that set for us?

00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:32.400
Exactly.

00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:37.119
Like I said, we're doing them a favor by making it easier for them to cross that item off their list.

00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.559
And the the only way to do that is to follow up multiple times.

00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:44.239
And now don't get me wrong, if they say they're not interested, we don't call ever again.

00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:48.480
But it we're just assuming that we haven't found a good time to connect until that point.

00:42:48.719 --> 00:42:51.440
We're just assuming, okay, they're busy, they're busy, they're busy.

00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:54.559
On the 10th time, we connect, awesome, let's go.

00:42:54.880 --> 00:43:03.280
The thing you said right now, I think is one of the biggest things that someone can take away from, where you're like, if they show that they're not interested, we don't continue to bother them.

00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:07.199
And the reason being is I literally have a plumbing company that I've already fired.

00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:09.119
Like they're I've like, I've called them.

00:43:09.280 --> 00:43:10.880
I do not want to work with you.

00:43:11.119 --> 00:43:12.719
Do not call or text me.

00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:17.519
And every week I could still pull up and be like, hey, your free plumbing inspection is here.

00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:19.599
Don't you want us to come by and check your whole system?

00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:20.880
Only takes 45 minutes.

00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:21.599
Like fuck up.

00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:22.400
I don't want you here.

00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:23.840
Leave me alone.

00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:26.960
Oh, so I'm glad to know that you're not that person.

00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:28.559
That makes me so happy.

00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:32.480
No, we yeah, we're only doing those follow-up attempts if there's just no answer.

00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:33.280
Awesome.

00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:40.000
Our goal, just like we talked about in the process, is just clearer futures, more sleep at night.

00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:40.639
Right?

00:43:40.800 --> 00:43:46.000
It's not actually about assaulting people, it's about making sure their needs are understood.

00:43:46.159 --> 00:43:48.079
It's the same reason we don't email it over.

00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:49.920
The quote that is, right?

00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:54.480
It's the same reason we want to come back and just have a conversation, make sure your questions are answered.

00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:58.880
So we know for sure what is the reasonable next step.

00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:01.039
That's so, so important.

00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:02.400
Just clearer futures.

00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:06.559
I mean so yeah, can appreciate that part of this.

00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.360
So that's the next thing you mentioned it gets in the way.

00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:18.000
Um, once we break that down, now it seems like we're finally to just electricians in homes doing that thing that we train electricians to do.

00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:19.840
Exactly.

00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:20.239
Yeah.

00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:23.440
Yeah.

00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:40.400
So I like to um, and actually, before we do that, let me close the loop because we didn't talk about the third stage of the third campaign, which is also uh conversion, uh, the lead uh lead campaign, same thing, retargeting the the people who watched the uh first two sets of videos.

00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:43.840
And that one is the product awareness, just to close that loop.

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:50.400
That's when you talk about your company and your years of experience, your Google reviews, you know, why you're the best company to hire.

00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:57.840
The problem that I see a lot of people do when they try to do Facebook ads is they want to start with that one and say, we're we're the best, buy our shit, as I like to say.

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.639
Like they're trying to, you know, you're just promoting yourself.

00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:08.239
And the problem is if you haven't shown them the problem that they have, you haven't presented a solution, then why should they give a crap about you and your company?

00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:09.360
They're like, cool story, bro.

00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:11.679
I'm gonna keep swiping and looking at the stuff that I like.

00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:21.679
Whereas if you've shown them the problem and and they they realize that there's an issue, you've shown them how you're gonna fix it, it's only logical that you say that, hey, we're the best person to do this for you.

00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:23.760
And so that's why we say that for the end.

00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:35.280
And then that typically is your best performing campaign of the three, not always, but usually that's the best one because you've you've done that educational process, you've taught them, and now you're just saying, hey, we'll take care of it for you.

00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:36.480
Here's why you should pick us.

00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:38.559
And that's what you call the bottom of funnel, then.

00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:39.840
Sorry for skipping you there.

00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:41.920
Yep, bottom of funnel, product awareness.

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.039
I the we we use them interchangeably on our team.

00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:45.840
Okay.

00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:54.079
So on that ad, you're literally going to show more of your logo, specifics about your brand, maybe even some background story.

00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.639
Yeah.

00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:54.960
Yeah.

00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:56.480
You could do all of the above.

00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:59.760
Yeah, um, background story, uh, credibility, authority.

00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:03.360
You just want to show you make your it's making your case for why you're the best choice.

00:46:04.320 --> 00:46:04.639
Okay.

00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:05.840
Really cool.

00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:09.679
What is your now compared to LSA, what is this campaign?

00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:11.199
How does it compare?

00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:16.480
What does it look like as far as cost per lead and cost per appointment booked, if you don't mind me asking?

00:46:16.880 --> 00:46:24.559
So the cost per lead is is less, but the cost per appointment is about the same because we don't book quite as many of them.

00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:30.159
So in in anything, you know, there as Thomas saw say, there's there's no such thing as benefits, only trade-offs.

00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:38.320
And so we're basically trading off lead volume for lead quality, um, or just people who are ready, because these sales cycles tend to be two to three times as long.

00:46:38.480 --> 00:46:41.679
Because again, we're they're not ready to buy today, but they're open to buying.

00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:47.039
So sometimes we'll get a lead and three or four weeks later, we'll get the sale, not right away.

00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:50.000
Um, but the cost per appointment is very similar.

00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:56.400
Um, like I said in the beginning, booking them was a challenge because we were treating them like the SEO or the LSA leads.

00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:57.519
So our booking rate was low.

00:46:57.679 --> 00:46:59.199
It was like 20 or 30.

00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:10.079
Um, but after working with our team and really dialing it in and setting that expectation, now we're closer to like a 40% book rate on those, whereas LSA is 60, I want to say.

00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:16.320
So the cost per appointment, I think for um LSA last month for us was 86.

00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:19.920
I'm looking at it now,$86.66 to get into the house.

00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:23.280
And for Facebook, it was 112.

00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:24.719
Okay.

00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:26.400
So not too far off.

00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:30.480
No, yeah, our target is is 100 to 110, is where we want to be.

00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:36.239
If we can get for last great, but usually we see you know 110 or less.

00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:37.039
Nice.

00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:38.800
Awesome, really cool.

00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:41.679
And so then you're able to get in the home, etc., run the play.

00:47:41.760 --> 00:47:44.320
Finally, I can loop that in there without cutting you off.

00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:48.239
From the meta ads, and we haven't talked about this yet.

00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:50.960
Uh, have you made some sales out of those leads?

00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:51.760
Oh, yeah.

00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:54.159
Yeah, I'd say about 40 or 50 grand.

00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:55.280
Okay.

00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:56.719
So you spend about four grand.

00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:00.320
You're like you're close to about a 10x return on ad spend then.

00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:00.800
Yep.

00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:02.079
Yeah, that's always our target.

00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:04.800
If we're not getting that, we're trying to figure out why.

00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:09.280
I think you mentioned in a past episode, if not, we'll plug it here.

00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:14.559
What do you think is the most important metric to track regarding these ads?

00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:17.280
Sure.

00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:28.239
So I look at it kind of differently from being on both sides, like being the person who generates the lead as the agency, as well as being the business owner who has the electrical company.

00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:33.280
I've had a good experience to seeing both sides and who should be accountable for what.

00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:42.320
For the marketing, really at the end of the day, they should be responsible for the cost per lead because that is really all that they can control.

00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:45.679
After that, the booking rate is up to the company.

00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:48.480
And so, I mean, you know, I'm I'm a company, so that helps.

00:48:48.719 --> 00:48:53.679
But the the um ROAS is what we tend to default to.

00:48:53.840 --> 00:49:00.800
So what's my return on ad span or what's my, you know, what's my um investment that I get, my uh return on investment.

00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:08.480
The issue with that is it doesn't tell the full story because there's three stages of this cycle that are going to determine that ROAS.

00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:12.239
And if one of them is broken, you can't blame it on the other two.

00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:24.079
So if your cost per lead is good and your booking rate is good, meaning your your cost per appointment is good, but your conversion rate is low, which means that your ROAS stinks, whose fault is that?

00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:25.280
Is that marketing's fault?

00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:31.199
Is that Facebook is not a good lead source, or is there someone who needs to get into some more calls with Joe?

00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:33.760
Whereas I feel like good.

00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:35.280
Sorry, I was just gonna plug.

00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:40.079
I feel like you could say the opposite just to be the asset test for that, too.

00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:45.840
Is there a way I could improve ROAS without affecting or changing my ads effectively?

00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:48.400
And that's what I'm hearing when you say that too.

00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:54.639
It's not just why do we suck, but holy crap, could we improve it without even doing anything to the ads?

00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:58.000
And it sounds like unequivocally, yes, right?

00:49:58.159 --> 00:49:59.760
Sales process, conversion.

00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:02.480
Yeah, my question is always is where is it broken?

00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:10.880
So if if if the row ads or the our return on our ad spend is not where we want it to be, let's figure out which of those stages is broken.

00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:15.360
Because it's almost never all three, and it's almost never two, it's almost always one.

00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:22.639
So if our cost per lead is out of whack, okay, marketing, maybe we need a different channel, maybe we're not running good ads, we got to fix that.

00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:26.480
But if our cost per lead is good, that means that marketing is doing its job.

00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:27.280
Good Joe.

00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:28.480
Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off.

00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:32.639
I was just simply saying that's another reason why I feel running a process is so important.

00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:39.840
Because if you have like a bunch of A players winging it and they're top tier, how and where is it breaking?

00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:43.280
Because you don't have a process to diagnose to figure out where it's going wrong.

00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:44.960
That's why I love having one.

00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:48.800
Because if you say, okay, let's say I'm not converting, well, I where?

00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:49.920
Where is it falling apart?

00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:50.800
Is it your presentation?

00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:51.920
Is it your option design?

00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:53.199
Is it your commitment levels?

00:50:53.360 --> 00:50:54.800
Is it like what have you done?

00:50:55.039 --> 00:51:00.239
So I love that it just kind of clicks where you're like, you need this in order to measure that.

00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:02.719
In order to measure that, you need the next step too.

00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:05.039
So all three kind of like interlock.

00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:08.239
Yeah, there it's a chain.

00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:11.679
And anytime the chain is broken, the whole thing is gonna suffer.

00:51:11.840 --> 00:51:13.119
So you have to have the whole thing.

00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:15.360
So we're always looking at which one of these is broken.

00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:22.400
So, like I say, in for as far as for marketing channels or your marketing in general, your cost per lead is the best indicator of that.

00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:32.480
And depending on, you know, if you're coming from the agency side or the business owner side, then um it's gonna determine if the booking is a part of that, the booking rate.

00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:40.079
So, you know, from our side, the the booking rate, we typically want that to be 50% uh or more if possible.

00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:47.519
So if we're getting leads at a great cost, but our booking rate is 20%, that's gonna be really tough to make it work.

00:51:47.920 --> 00:51:57.519
So that's where I don't like to say, like if someone says, hey, this is not working, these leads are crap, it's like, okay, let's dial down and say which one of these three is broken and how do we fix it?

00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:04.480
And then once we know which one's broken, we can go over best practices and say, all right, well, eight sales is down, we need to get them in some classes.

00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:05.440
Are you running the process?

00:52:05.599 --> 00:52:07.440
Are you doing all the things that you know you're supposed to do?

00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:10.800
If the booking rate is down, all right, are you calling them within five minutes?

00:52:10.960 --> 00:52:12.639
Are you following up 10 times?

00:52:12.800 --> 00:52:16.159
Like wherever is broken down, we're gonna run a play and fix that.

00:52:16.320 --> 00:52:26.480
And so I'd say of this whole journey, that's maybe the most important uh loop that we've figured out is how to fix that instead of just saying, Oh, that didn't work.

00:52:26.559 --> 00:52:27.599
I'm gonna try something else.

00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:28.960
Because how many times do we hear that?

00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:32.320
It's like, oh, LSA doesn't work for me, or Andrew's ad sucks.

00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:34.960
Okay, well, yeah, are you calling within five minutes?

00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:36.559
The answer is always no.

00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:37.440
Yeah.

00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:46.719
Yeah, I'm gonna piggyback on this and say there's actually two um well-known and documented things that affect this.

00:52:47.119 --> 00:52:52.719
And one of these is actually the um the path of least resistance, is what I'm looking for.

00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:57.280
And this affects humans as well in conservation of energy.

00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:08.000
Literally, we're programmed biologically to avoid um big efforts that aren't seen as essential.

00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:20.400
But the problem is that we also have a bias that kind of shows us that we've already done work and that conservation of energy makes us not want to go deeper on that work because we haven't seen any fruit from it yet.

00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:29.519
It's the equivalent of our caveman uncle digging a hole to find an apple, and there was no apple four inches deep, but truly they were actually six inches deep.

00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:32.960
And so the same thing, these same principles apply in process.

00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:42.079
And what Forrest is saying, and if you were shocked by a 50% booking rate at all, keep in mind like we're talking about potential eight to 10k average ticket leads here.

00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:46.159
These are people that want panel replacements or service upgrades, right?

00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:49.519
Like this is not uh$200 demand call.

00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:51.119
These are big things.

00:53:51.360 --> 00:54:01.199
So keeping that in mind, when you refine your process and it helps to have extra eyes on it, highly recommend uh uh grabbing a strategy call with Forrest if you guys are interested in that.

00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:02.639
The link is down below.

00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:08.400
But having extra eyes will show you past your own bias of I did everything, this doesn't work.

00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:10.639
And what will happen as a result?

00:54:10.800 --> 00:54:19.280
You'll find the other four or five ways to improve that metric, and it will improve across your entire company because of the work you do in your worst area.

00:54:19.519 --> 00:54:23.039
That's something that I've observed, and it's a bit of a miracle in business.

00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:26.800
It sometimes takes that outside perspective, though.

00:54:29.440 --> 00:54:29.920
Totally.

00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:32.800
Yeah, the theory of constraints is an eye-opener.

00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:38.239
It's saying like the bottleneck in your business is the thing that's holding it back, not the other items.

00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:44.480
The potential doesn't mean anything until you fix that one item and open up like the a factory is a good example.

00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:48.719
So, say there's one stage of the factory that's holding and backing up the rest of the factory.

00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:58.079
It doesn't matter how much more you're putting through, it's all gonna get backed up in that one place until you can remove that constraint and then the throughput goes, and then you just find the bottle, the next bottleneck.

00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:00.719
Yeah, I love that.

00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:03.039
Recently, uh we're gonna try to wrap this up.

00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:04.400
I know we're a bit over time, guys.

00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:06.159
Thank you for your patience with this.

00:55:06.320 --> 00:55:11.360
Um, recently, I had a mentor tell me it was a bit of a finance background, like Forrest.

00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:14.960
And he said, look, there's there's two elements of control you can have in your business.

00:55:15.119 --> 00:55:18.159
You can control your expenses, but we all know there's a limit to that.

00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:26.960
At some point, if you want to do 100K plus months, I mean, you're gonna be spending somewhere between 50, 60, 70k a month in your bills.

00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:28.239
That's just what it is.

00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:30.079
OpEx, cost of goods sold.

00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:31.119
It is what it is, right?

00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:32.159
You have to spend.

00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:37.280
You can't at some point reduce your guys' wages so they don't work for you anymore.

00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:40.400
Or the other area was income control.

00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:48.960
And what I love about this podcast and this focus is that if you can figure these pieces out, then it's essentially infinite.

00:55:49.280 --> 00:56:05.199
Because if you have all these ads areas working for you, like Forrest said, four or five channels working for you, and you're talking hundreds of leads a month, and we've seen it work up to 300, 300 plus leads a month and have this ability to hit 300k, 500k.

00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:09.760
Heck, even a million dollar a month companies, it's infinite.

00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:20.480
And even if you max out in an area, then there's always, well, let's just do what works again and copy and paste over in the next service area over or in the next state over.

00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:22.960
And guys can do this again infinitely.

00:56:23.119 --> 00:56:27.039
So where cost control is limited, income control is unlimited.

00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:33.760
And if you figure these things out, then the world is your oyster and you get to make this as big as you can possibly handle.

00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:38.960
Forrest, any thoughts on that and closing comments for you today on the podcast?

00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:41.039
No, I mean, I think you nailed it.

00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:42.719
You know, there's only so much you can cut.

00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:46.079
If you want to build a big company, you got to find ways to get more leads.

00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:50.559
You know, we see any, you know, we like to do it from the um ratio.

00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:53.119
So, what is the ratio of things that we're spending?

00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:55.360
And for us marketing, we want to get around 10%.

00:56:56.000 --> 00:56:58.320
So we did 110,000 last month.

00:56:58.400 --> 00:56:59.920
So we want to spend 11,000.

00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:01.760
We spent that exactly on the dot.

00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:04.719
That's our reinvestment to keep the machine running.

00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:09.119
So without that, we could keep, you know, trying to save quote unquote money.

00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:12.239
We're not really saving anything, we're just making a smaller business.

00:57:12.559 --> 00:57:20.480
So once you figure out you know what you can afford to spend, and I think you guys do a really good job of this, is figuring out your average ticket and your average opportunity.

00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:24.239
That's what's going to tell you how much you can afford to spend on these leads.

00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:34.239
So you just do the math backwards and say, all right, anything I can do that's below this, you know, for example, say for someone it's$60, I can spend, get$60 a lead and still make money.

00:57:34.480 --> 00:57:37.360
Anything you can do below that point is is golden.

00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:41.280
So don't worry if you're getting, you know, 60 instead of 20.

00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:44.320
You're still making money and you're just trying to get better as you go.

00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:48.079
But you got to be willing to reinvest in in the business to grow.

00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:49.280
That's the only way.

00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:50.800
Absolutely.

00:57:50.960 --> 00:57:52.639
Joe, any closing comments, brother?

00:57:52.960 --> 00:58:09.280
You know, I'd say there's a lot I learned as a whole, but the thing that just keeps sticking out more and more is that in every industry, it doesn't matter what it is, doesn't matter what you're selling, what you're trying to design, the biggest barrier to entry being effort is just really just such a game changer.

00:58:09.360 --> 00:58:23.039
If we can understand how to systemize it to make it easy to buy, how it's easy to move forward, how it's easy to click the form, the results are going to be exponentially higher than even if you put the smallest of barriers into place.

00:58:23.199 --> 00:58:26.320
So, Forrest, thank you for confirming you know what I felt.

00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:28.320
Really, it's very validating.

00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:30.239
Absolutely.

00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:32.159
Really cool, guys.

00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:38.159
We've got this uh 30-day sprint spreadsheet that you guys can grab below, whether you're watching on YouTube, listening on the podcast, etc.

00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:46.320
And of course, if you want help reverse engineering this, figuring this out, go ahead, click and book a strategy call with Forrest to see what ads could look like for you.

00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:56.159
But also uh another link below, electricserviceapp.com, where you can sign up and join us in the app for even more great ideas, even more help reverse engineering this.

00:58:56.239 --> 00:59:00.639
And of course, getting your process down so you can make the low uh most of all these leads.

00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:01.920
Thank you guys very much.

00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:05.360
We'll see you again next week on the Million Dollar Electrician Podcast.

00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:06.159
Take care, friends.

00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:07.280
Be blessed.