Episode 23- Know Your Enemy and Your Cause

@3:27 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Welcome to Electropreneur Secrets. I'm your host Clay. This is my esteemed cohost, Mr. Joseph Lucani, the sales bot.

And as I say that, the site starts dinging.

@3:37 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

I had to hit mute. Joseph, how are you? I'm doing really amazing today, man. I'm feeling really, really good, really inspired, I'm on point.

@3:45 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah, I love that. Well, as always, we're here live with you five days a week to help you master sales, simplify your pricing, and deliver premium level service.

Guys, it might seem like a coincidence, but there is a reason we say it in that order. Sales. What else is the foundation of this pyramid, this business that you're building?

We have to master the ability to be attractive enough to have people come to us and want our service.

We have to master the exchange in such a way that we make the most of every prospect, every client who comes into our sphere of influence.

Then and only then can we focus on profitability because a business without profit can survive a while, a business without sales, without that exchange is dead in the water, aren't they?

@4:33 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Oh yeah. It's like one of the things where if you can picture your business being like a boat, you could shoot a shotgun shell right to the center of it, blow a hole in it.

But if you can bail it out fast enough, you're not sinking. But the moment you stop bailing is the moment you start going down.

Thing about sales is that it not only is the ability of bailing, but sales as it builds profit is also the board that seals the hole.

you're actually not only saving yourself, but you're also moving your company forward and putting it in a position to where I'm gonna keep pushing this to shore and I'm gonna get the water out, but I'm also having one hand in sealing the hole.

@5:14 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

I love that. Great analogy. And I'm gonna throw in here and just jump gears, shift gears a little bit.

As if you don't know the set and you're just listening to us on the podcast, that's the recorded version.

You could actually join us live on Facebook in the Electricpreneur Secrets, the Electricians Podcast Facebook group. And we've got live conversations happening in there.

And Brian, we asked Brian earlier, what are you working on? What's your biggest focus right now? And here's what Brian said:

Sales is the biggest challenge right now. Trying to turn my technician brain over. Joseph, can you relate to that?

@5:48 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Oh my God, yeah. Brian, I want you to know what I feel for you because there's two different shifts that have happened.

@5:55 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Can I dig into that for a second please?

@5:56 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Yeah, let's take a minute with it. So the thing about... in technician brain is a technician is meant to, as we believe, solve a problem, which is I'm gonna find the short, I'm gonna figure out what's tripping the breaker, I'm gonna figure out how to get the lights back on.

We're very logic oriented to, I'm going to solve X. The problem with technician brain is that it's not meant to fix the problem, it's meant to repair the problem.

When you get into a sales mentality, your goal is to fix the problem so it never happens again. So instead of saying, I'm gonna cut the wall and I'm gonna find out where that short is, the sales mindset is, I'm just gonna redo this line.

It doesn't make sense, it's already 45 years old, we don't know who the last person touched on it. There's obviously an open here, what's stopping there from being another one on the wall?

I'm just gonna redo it. So you don't wanna just be a tech and you don't just wanna be a sales person.

Being a sales technician is the sweet spot. Because you need to know your job in order to do it effectively.

@7:03 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

I love that. I love that. And earlier we were talking about sales being the dirty word. Of course, we all know reasons why it gets a bad rep, mostly car lot guys.

@7:13 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Yeah.

@7:14 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

But again, as we addressed yesterday, talking about the two steps of financing and having two options, like that's a car lot mentality.

That's a car lot strategy rather. And it is to serve clients at the highest levels so that if you want to get into this car, we can help you.

I just wanted to stand in there, take a stand for those car lot guys and say, it's not all bad, but like anything, a couple of rotten apples spoiled the well.

Yeah. Strategy's good. Trying to get people in the car they want. Just like in a house, sales is a dirty word.

Let's replace it with service for a minute and just understand that serving at the highest level requires us to help with the quality of life that these clients are experiencing and doing the right thing.

Sometimes means raising your ticket. Most times it does.

@8:03 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

100%, and sorry for interjecting.

@8:06 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

I figured that there'd be a good analogy that every electrician in the world can understand. Yeah, let's go.

All right. Every one of us has seen a property management company. All of us have seen them. And usually it's not with a kind thought because we're thinking, oh, they're just trying to band-aid something.

Right? Is that really good service? It can't possibly be. Right? Because if they just band-aid it, it's gonna keep coming back and keep coming back and keep coming back.

But the person who's often doing that isn't doing it because they wanna cobble something. They're usually doing it because they're uncomfortable with sales.

They're uncomfortable with approaching a larger number and telling the customer, you know what? Yeah, you bought a home from 1912 and it's all aluminum cloth knob and tube.

You know what? I can understand being uncomfortable and saying you. called me for a ceiling fan and now it's a $45,000 home renovation.

I get it. But at the same time, are you truly serving someone at the highest level if you're being unwilling to tell them?

If you were running your own property management company, would you be the person who's saying, I'm just going to nickel and dime this until eventually I'm at a contract?

Or are you gonna be the person who's saying, you know what, I'm gonna do the right job and we're gonna tear up this parking lot redoing lives because I need my people safe.

@9:31 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah, totally. Love it, love it, love it. No argument from me, sir. If you guys disagree, let us know on the Facebook page.

Go ahead if you're watching live or the replay, let us know if you're watching live. Go ahead, type live if you're watching the replay.

At this point, let us know by typing replay. And if you're just listening to us, that was a great little start to the program, but we've also got a big elephant in the room today, actually, and it's "knowing your enemy".

And if that's not a curiosity headline, what is? I don't know. How important is it to know your enemy?

And why is that important? These are questions you might have. And as we said just before the live recording here, in just the live rather, we were addressing this as, doesn't knowing your enemy, knowing the antagonist in this story, knowing the conflict and addressing it, standing against something, that implies that we know what we're heading towards, doesn't it?

It implies that we have a mission and a vision. What are your feelings on this, Joseph?

@10:35 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

I think it's absolutely essential to not only have a vision, but I'd like to go a little bit deeper into it as well.

Let's do it. The reason being is that every one of us has this antagonist outside of us, right? Whether it's your boss or your competitor or political party, it doesn't matter.

We all have something that we naturally stand against. But I wanna go a little bit further with it. and say, what in yourself is posing an actual antagonist to your success?

What is it about you that is holding you back from achieving a higher level? And are you even mentally or consciously aware of it?

What are your thoughts on that, Clay?

@11:17 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah, that's an interesting deep dive. What I can tell you and I'm sure everyone would agree listening or watching live right now is that we do notice these people.

There are people around us. Maybe it's on social media. Maybe it's in the news, but we're recognizing people who seem freed of this problem.

And they're really able to come into themselves and just be unique and just be them and be confident in that.

And it seems like probably by no coincidence at that moment, your following can really grow. You can really take off when you begin to embrace that.

Does that makes sense?

@11:58 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

It does, you know, because the thing is that No one wants to rally behind a guy sitting on the fence.

You can't. It's like, when you think about it, who's the person who gets picked last? The person that you can't predict.

It's like, if I know you're bad, or I know you're good, that's clear in a box. For the person in the middle is the unknown.

And people don't wanna go to the unknown. They wanna know which side of the fence you're on.

@12:20 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

It's polarity, brother. It's what we learn in our education as electricians. There's positive and negative. What's your positive and what's your negative?

Very interesting concept. And there's a lot of perspectives and angles on this. What I really want to address today is how it impacts your marketing, your positioning, where you sit.

Because something people fail to recognize, I think, a lot of times, is even the PR potential. And if you look around, what does the news tell you?

@12:55 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Nothing good. Nothing good anymore.

@13:00 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

It's always everything that people have or are realizing conflicts and what they stand against. The most polarizing stuff is the most attractive to those networks.

Why do they do that? Well, this is why. It increases viewership because either for or against people show up for a cause and they want to take a side.

What's our cause? I mean, we do this. I can tell you exactly what we're standing for and what we're trying to achieve.

We want an international group of elite premium service electricians that are united in having this credential, in being part of this group, in being an electricpreneur, taking pride in having the very dignity that electricity itself gets.

That level of respect. In acknowledging that, who are we standing against?

@13:59 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Realistically, standing against anyone that's in the way. But what I mean by that is, at the end of the day, we're just going to make sure that we only support the best people that we possibly can in every possible avenue that we can.

@14:15 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Okay, but that wasn't standing against. Steven, you pivoted back to the positive there.

@14:19 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Yeah, I'm a positive person, I get it.

@14:22 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

The people that are with us in Blarity are tired of being treated like the stupid trade. Yeah. Are tired of being treated like our tickets are lower so we're not worth anything.

@14:35 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Yeah, no, I get your point on that.

@14:36 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

We have the most education. I swear, we have the smartest people, and for that reason, sometimes we can be socially inept.

Right? Go ahead, give me a one if you've ever felt that way in this trade. I know there's lots of us out there, right?

Myself included. Ever feel like I just don't connect with people? That's not a deserving feeling, and I stand against that.

I stand against every service company that's never developed.

@15:00 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

a specific electrical train program like we have. Yeah, and you know why is it not in our language? You know, the thing is it really blows my mind because I remember when I first started off, I remember I was desperately looking for an electrical trainer.

Like desperately, desperately looking for someone that we could rally to. Someone that would say, you know what, you've done it before and you can do it.

And really all I found was plumbers and HVAC technicians that said, hey, I could tell you how to sell capacitors.

I could tell you how to sell a whole long surge projector. That should translate it, right? And then I'm like, okay, I'll take a process.

I'll follow it because there was nothing else. It took seven years to get to where I'm at now. But if we can fast track that for other people, other electricians, they don't have to suffer the way that we did.

Shouldn't it be enough that you can say you don't have to cut your teeth anymore? We shouldn't have to prove that we're the redheaded stepchild.

We know that we've been. Why are we not asking for more?

@16:02 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Agreed. 100%. So we know our stance, we know our vision. We're very clear on where we're going, and that makes it very easy to make this decision.

To put yourself out there is really where this topic was derived from. One of our listeners, Edwin, we were going through his origin story and some of the stuff that he's going to put out there with his business as he works on his own website, et cetera.

What we realized, Edwin, I hope you don't mind me saying, brother, this is all good stuff. What we realized is it always comes to this moment of how much do I share?

Do I put my conflicts out there for people to see?

@16:43 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Doesn't that push people away?

@16:45 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

And the answer is yes. Go ahead.

@16:50 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

I was going to say there's actually something, a real moment that I had that speaks directly to that. And one of the things where it was, once again, I'm out being autistic, but I didn't know what to do.

know whether I should tell people in business because there is this stereotype, you know, and I didn't want people to look at me and say, oh, well, how do I know that he's going to be functional if you go on a call?

But I was like, you know what, eventually I'm going to dig into it. And I'm going to say, I am a neurodivergent one company and I wound it and I stood behind it.

And I'm so glad that I did it. And there were some people who didn't like it, but you know what, at the end of the day, I wasn't pretending to be someone I wasn't.

@17:28 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

And the unaccepted reality is most entrepreneurs are neurodivergent in some little way, shape or form. And for others, it's greater.

But either way, there's gifts in that, right? It's interesting how neurodivergent has been considered a handicap at all. When really what I've considered the handicap is convergent thinking.

All roads lead to one answer. Yes, no, zero, one binary like that. To me, never floated. It doesn't work.

Divergent thinking is the ability to see it. different ways and recognizing the patterns in different perspectives. And that's how entrepreneurs succeed.

Being able to choose and say, okay, I've got 12 different roads I could go down here. Which one serves me best right now?

@18:16 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Same concept of working with your competitor. You know, you say, if everyone's thinking the exact same way, actually you touched on it the other day that I think would be really good to add to, but if everyone's thinking the exact same way, they're likely marketing to the exact same client the exact same way.

So if you are able to position yourself a little bit different, now it stops being us and them. It starts being, hey, I see all of my competitors are doing it this way.

And if I am here, now I'm the lightning rod that people can rally to.

@18:49 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Absolutely. I love that. Get grounded, right? That's huge. That's huge. So let's relate this back to the story piece.

If we're about to tell our story and we're feeling like, oh, this could turn some people away. It's likely, likely, needs consideration.

We're gonna make sure we're not saying the wrong stuff, but it's likely that that means you're at a polarizing moment.

And I'm telling you, and I'm sure we can agree, would you rather be neutral, attract a bit of everyone and really know no one?

Or would you rather be polarized and know exactly who your clients are and exactly who they aren't? So you spend less time driving door to door, not making sales, obliterating your conversion rate, and more time embracing your community and standing strong for the challenges you face, the person you are, the neurodivergence you experience.

And as an example, since we did your interview one week ago, let's just use that and just throw numbers out there.

It's fine. But I know we had a certain number of people reach out to you and say, wow, I sure relate to that.

And would you say you have a better bond and made new friends from that?

@20:00 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Honestly, it was one of those moments that really brought a tear to my eye. And I don't mean to say that in the wrong way, but it was really nerve wracking to be on a live podcast.

And I feel like every time I come out, I come out for the first time. And it's just, it was so wonderful because people were coming out and saying, Joe, I can relate where you're coming from.

I feel like that. I struggle with eye contact. I struggle with repetition. I struggle with being awkward. And then suddenly it was less of a me being different and more of a, we are together and we can be different together.

And then I can help guide people who are different because you know what? My goal isn't to make you guys me.

My goal is to make everyone that I train better than me. That's what I want.

@20:48 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Love that. Now as an exercise, just to complete this, how many people reached out and said, I can't believe you said that.

@20:55 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

I can't follow you.

@20:56 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

No one.

@20:57 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Nobody. But granted, granted I was going to say. I'm pretty sure people don't like to bully the neurodivergent guy, you know what I mean?

But either way, no one reached out and said no.

@21:07 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

If you put your story out there and it has an antagonist and you're taking a stand for something and it expresses your conflict in a way that builds to your positioning in your marketplace, that makes you different.

People aren't going to reach out and get mad at you for being different, not at this level. Most will just move the fuck on.

Excuse my French, but they will. And that's perfect. One last phone call that I'm going to get other estimates just so you know.

I'm not sure about you. I don't know if we really relate. Just let me know if you're my customer or not.

@21:39 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Let's move forward.

@21:42 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

It's an exercise in qualification and absolutely a superpower. Oh man, oh man. I'm so passionate about this.

@21:53 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

I'm sorry.

@21:54 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Here's the thing, as we use this for firepower, as we embrace ourselves… and put it out there. We also gain attention.

Suddenly you've got reasons, as we talked about PR earlier, you got reasons to go out in public and take a stand.

@22:09 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

What would happen then? Well, if you were to take a stand on a particular topic, what will end up happening is your clients, the real clients, the ones that are gonna be lifelong clients, they're gonna relate to that.

And they're gonna be like, finally, someone who took a stand for something, someone who's not okay with what's going on in the world, someone who's not okay with how this is being handled.

I'm glad you took a stand on that. And the fact that you're willing to put yourself out there and risk getting stuck on the jaw, that's a good sign because you know what?

@22:42 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Nothing risk, nothing gain. Yeah. So let's address the number side, which I feel is the biggest objection to this.

It's the same reason people don't niche. It's insane. You guys, we gotta recognize collectively, speaking to everyone is speaking to no one.

Ending out business cards. say residential, commercial and industrial, and automotive and marine, and we'll wire lights on your shoes and we'll do Christmas lights and we'll do up your Halloween costumes.

There's literally nothing that electrons touch that we won't. That is a big- No job today or too small, right?

@23:17 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

That's a big freaking net.

@23:20 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

It's too big. You're speaking to no one, right? So let's refine that and deal with this issue once and for all.

How many people are in your community? And James, by the way, said something really important. I started in business to keep my mouth shut about local politics.

Oh, sorry. Because I've been told since I started in business to keep my mouth shut about local politics. And James, this one's personal.

I personally don't take stands on issues of religion, politics, anything that's super aggravating to people. I'm not necessarily saying-

go out and do that, but still your choice. There are people on both sides. If you want to do that, you can, and you can relate to people, but in business, I've always followed that as well.

Okay, so the numbers, narrowing this down. How many people are in your demographic that you serve? I mean, we work with people that have a million and some that have 12,000, right?

@24:26 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Realistically, at the end of the day, it's where in your community are you and do you know your demographic?

Do you even know where you're trying to hit? Because once again, I like to use the darts analogy, right?

Realistically, you could close your eyes, spin yourself around a couple of times and throw, and there is a chance that you could hit the right target, right, but wouldn't it be better if you can say, I'm looking for this type of client within this demographic, within this income bracket, who is looking for these services.

I want my middle-class, family-owned people. Then you can take all your marketing goes towards them. All your sales goes towards them.

All your designs, all your promotions. Now you're able to start hitting bullseyes on consistent basis because you know where you're trying to get to.

@25:13 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Absolutely. No, I love that. Exactly. So it's okay because really how many clients are you gonna serve in a year?

We have a number. I know actually we haven't come to this math yet. So we're looking up in our heads and doing the math, but on our five pillars value piece, really we were talking about 14 leads generated every week for you in the $1.3 million van book.

@25:41 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Consistently. Yeah. The benefit would come down to where qualified leads are an interesting thing. A call would come in and you would say, is this the right fit?

It doesn't mean that they're the right person you're gonna work with. And even when you go to a call, it doesn't mean they're gonna get a presentation because the qualification consistently happens throughout the process.

by the time you even get to the end, you're like, I know whether I'm gonna give you a number or not.

And if you're not the right fit, I'm not gonna give you a number.

@26:08 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Yeah, exactly. So even in a small community area of like 10,000, we're talking under 10% of the people that you're trying to get awareness and attention from.

Right, most communities are 20,000 at least. Now we're under 5%. Increase the area 50,000, right, 100,000. It's the 1% rule all day long.

And the reality is in that niche, in the way you're trying to relate to people, can you find a 1% community that relates to you and becomes lifetime clients because you actually have a connection, a foundational connection?

@26:48 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

I can imagine that to be the case because at the end of the day, it's like people want to rally to the same.

You know, like I want to play on that team. I want to play on that team. Pick your team, stick to it.

And once you do.

@27:00 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

people will know where to follow. Absolutely. Hate it or love it, there's no money in the middle, as a mentor said to me.

So you guys, that's why it's important to know your enemy. And that pretty much concludes this episode as an action item.

Really look at some of the things that polarize you. Really look at that, take a look at it. For Edwin, as we mentioned earlier, it was just a giant push, I shouldn't say just as in demeaning it, but it's a push to be the most family centered business in his area.

And his story supports that. There's reasons I won't go into, that's his personal story. But when it all lines up, when you identify the conflict, the wall that's in the way, the transformation, the reasons why you're here, running on these promises to every client, you really give them something to attach their care to, something to relate to, to be on the same agenda, the same causes.

So take action in deciding what that story is. That would be my first action. What is it that I'm going to commit myself to?

What is this vision? What is my mission? Maybe some of the most overplayed coaching principles on the planet. Guys running and go, oh, we've got to define your vision.

We've got to define your mission. And everyone's like, fucking why? This is why. And it's not only for your clients.

Who else does this attract?

@28:35 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

This attracts literally, also people like myself, your apex players, the people who are like, you know what? I'm not happy somewhere else.

And I really respect what this person's doing. And I want to rally behind their cause. So you can get people who are making significant money to make changes to say, you know what?

@28:55 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

I want to rally a cause I believe in.

@28:57 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Absolutely.

@28:57 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

Absolutely. our action? If I may?

@29:03 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Sure, go for it. I want to touch on one.

@29:05 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

You got one?

@29:06 - Joseph Lucanie (Fathom)

Yeah, I got one off top of my head. There was an exercise that I remember learning that really kind of changed a lot of perspective for me.

And I remember the exercise is to get into the mirror and literally look at yourself and say, what do I want?

And you would say it over and over and over and over again. And the reason why is because the first 10 things you'll say are superficial.

You'll say, what do I want? I want money. I want a nice car. I want a beautiful spouse. I want a day off, right?

And you just keep going and going and going and going and going. After the 20th, the 30th, you have nothing else to go but deep.

You have nowhere. You take all the shit off the top and what's left is you down to your bare soul.

When you can look at yourself in the mirror and you watch that revelation happen because I remember what I found was I want to stay alive.

I want to live. I want to be happy. I don't want to feel in pain anymore. That was at the end.

That was like a number 40 or 50 for me. And those were the really life-changing moments where you can say, you know what?

Now I know what I want. And now that I know what I want, I know what I stand for.

Because as Hamilton said, I love it.

@30:26 - Clay Neumeyer (serviceloopelectrical.com)

If you don't stand for something, what will you fall for? Hm. Valid. Nailed it. I love that. Guys, that's a super action.

I just want to add one little thing to it. Come back. Let us know. What are you standing for and what are you standing against?

You can put it right on the wall. Just standing for, standing against. Let us know and absolutely take action on this stuff and start recognizing that knowing your enemy allows people to know who you're playing for and join your...

cause. That's it. I'm Clay, this is Joseph. Thank you for attending another episode, listening again or joining us live on Electropreneur Secrets, the electric podcast.

We're here to help you master your sales, simplify your pricing and deliver premium level service and as you heard here today, we're definitely with and for powerful electricians who want to take a stand and rise for this and we're definitely against anyone who wants to generalize and put us in the back of the pack and not serve us specifically with the stuff that we need.

Cheers to your success.